I was particularly struck by last week's discussion in that most of you focused on the values associated with motion, or the mechanistic values, but one person said that in our culture we want or need to believe that organic values still exist. I think that idea is particularly apropos to our discussion of the poetry of the First World War. The poets seem caught in despair when looking at a world that seemed to be out of control--where the mechanistic values all trumped the organic values with disastrous results.
We saw the human side of war and battle in the poetry we discussed in class. Do you feel that war today is humanized or is it dehumanized? Are we more sensitive to the horrors with the instant communication we have today--or are we desensitized? Whatever your reaction, what does that tell you about our values? Do we need the organic values?
Btw, I took the title of this post from a novel on the Vietnam War by Bao Ninh.
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The Mechanistic values are control, expetice, conformity, certainty, predictability, certainty and to support the bureauracy's point of view. In my opinion, that's what War World I was all about. The intergrating value is dehumanizing and all of the Mechanistic values support it.
ReplyDeleteWe have gotten more sensitive to the horrors of war because of T.V. and radio. They have brought the dreadful, unpleasant, ugly pictures or our military personal being shot up and cut into pieces into our living rooms and car radios. We see pictures of women and children being strapped up with C-4 and walking into a market or a business and blowing themselves up along with some times hundreds of innocent by-standers dieing. To me, it makes no sense but, to the government or to the leader of that particular group, it's the right thing to do in the name of that leader or their god.
We diffinetly need Organic values. Organic values are freedom over control, the individual over collective, the amatuer over the expert, partership over fonformity and uncertainty over certainty.
The Mechanistic values were displayed all over these magnificant World War I poems. The poets made me feel sad, mad, and they made me wonder what went wrong with the Government and society.They used human being for their agendas, no matter what the cost. The world had gone "Out of Control".
The War that was suppose to end all Wars, was a costly joke. Our Government and society is still preaching ignorance about War. No War is good. We should always try to avoid War, if we can. Until you see your friends come back from War all mentally or physically broken, you will never understand what I'm taking about.
Durning my time in the United States Navy, I was either very lucky or God was looking out for me. Either way I Thank God every day.
The idea of men and women having to act like machines for War just doesn't sit right with me.
The poets did a great job of giving us a visual of what transpired during War. They showed us that "dominant social values of WW I's Cultural Matrix" was a serious unforgetable mistake. I always marvel at what damage and destruction "man" or "society" is capable of. We as a society, have to more involved.
Around 1969 0r 1970 there was a popular song out that defined what I think War is. It was entiled "War, What is it Good For? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
Good night America, where ever you are.
Adios!!
I believe war is a little bit of both. I believe soldiers go into war with a task at hand and with that they understand that they may have to kill people. I think it is humanizing though because they still have feelings. We have some chivalry when fighting now because even though we have the means to drop an atomic bomb we would never pull a Hiroshima/Nagasaki like we had done previously because it is not right. As humans you can't help but to be sensistive to the brutality that takes place during war. I think though when you see it all the time you become almost numb to it. Are values are a main priority for the most part is maintaining integrity and be sensistive to tough issues. Yes it depends though
ReplyDeleteI believe when it comes to war it still dehumanizing as well as humanizing. I mean soldiers go over to do what they were trained to do which is kill. But the reality is that when these soldiers return home some of them aren't the same anymore in terms of physical and mental state. In some ways I believe would rather ignore the issues people face from fighting in the war especially if the soldier is a male there is so much stigma behind psychological problems in men. That makes the war dehumanizing in a sense. It can be seen as humanizing that there's this sense of duty and honor to serve your country and some people are sensitive to the factors of that. In some ways we are desensitized because the horrors of war are being exposed by those who wish to not sit back and not be real about the situation, the issue of war. Our values are still mechanistic in terms of war but outside of that its not as much. Yes we still need organic values it is what makes us human- flawed and all. We should never lose sight of the organic needs they serve a significant purpose.
ReplyDeleteActually, I am not so sure what I think of war-after being a part of a society which has been at war for quite some time its difficult for me, to put words to something I find senseless. In my mind we began this war for one "supposable" purpose and now, we are there for reasons I don't completely understand other than oil-and to me, that is not a good enough reason for all the lives that have been lost.
ReplyDeleteAnd so, I guess in my opinion war today is dehumanized. Almost everything about it is done for a world of words-words that are fought by people and yet, those people are hardly taken notice of. Words such as: politics, oil, money, anger; and at the end of the day all those words mean almost nothing-specifically to the people fighting and to the families suffering the deaths of their loved ones.
And, it is very possible that because of the instant communication we behold in our society today we are (at least I am somewhat) desensitized to the horrors of war-and I know it's sad to say out loud-but it's true, the horrors of war and of the world are displayed through our instant communication with such quickness, veracity, that many people just block out certain situations/images.
And, overall, that totally tells me that we need the implement of more organic values, and values that are somewhat emotional more humanizing, values that connect people and create an understanding of humanity.
At first society was shocked at the real images of war seen through the television, but I think as time went by, we have become more desensitized towards them. Today's generation grew up with color televisions and graphic images on screen, including scenes with gun violence and modern warfare so now we tend to take war more for granted.
ReplyDeleteThere are a few occasions where we humanize war by showing what soldiers are doing during the holidays or whatever, but for the most part I feel that war has been dehumanized because nowadays we just focus on statistics and reports like number of casualties and whatnot.
I think that war today is dehumanized. We really don’t pay attention all the lives that are being lost day to day in the war in the Middle East. All the media has desensitized us. The media helped us dehumanize this war because these images are like a casual picture or video clip. We are already so used to seeing all the violence on TV, and it really doesn’t take a toll on us. However, I think there is some humanization when the dead soldiers are brought back to the country. It is like reality hits us and it is then that we begin to see the war as a bad thing.
ReplyDeleteI personally don't think war could ever be humanized. Something that involves murdering so many complete strangers and being killed for no reason other than being on the opposite side is dehumanizing. People fight for what they believe is right and each side thinks they are better than the other. But who is to judge who is really right if that judgment is destined to be biased anyhow?
ReplyDeleteAs distant spectators, I think some people are desensitized to the war. They do not know what it's like on the battlefield, nor do they really think about it. People are usually more concerned with what's currently going on in their lives, much less anyone else's. The only time someone might be snapped back into reality and actually feel sympathy, sadness, or horror, is when they know someone or of someone who is in the war. I think when people hear of the death count they think "wow that's a lot of people dead" but do they really feel anything? And if we hear about the death count of the other side, do we feel sorry?
I think we need the organic values because without those there is no point to life. If we are constantly working as a machine and not thinking about the individual, there is nothing to gain or lose. I think organic values are what keep us human.
Kene,
ReplyDeleteI agree. Nowadays it does seem like it's all about statistics. And even when they show us the random clip about soldiers surprising their children at school or coming home for the holidays, it doesn't do more than cause a quick "aw" moment before people go right back to not caring or not thinking about what they deal with any other time of the year.
I believe that war today is dehumanized because in war they are not afraid to kill people. They are trained to kill and protect our nation. But when they are not at war our society is humanized because we see war and killing as a crime and you should pay for it. I think we desensitized with the horrors of war. Well at least I am. Just the thoughts of war and all the killing are terrible images in my mind. Yes we do need the organic values. I believe we still flow and honor the organic values without then we would have a different type of government and society. We wouldn’t be the land of the free and such a diverse (mixed) country.
ReplyDeleteI think because of the media our society has become more in tuned to the horrors of war. I think the constant view of graphic images has turned many in our country against war and the effects. This constant available update has also made some people uninterested. A portion of American society does not think that its country is a war on an even weekly basis. I think a society always needs organic values. I think our society puts greater importance on organic values today than we have in the past. I think the American society would also benefit from a slight increase in mechanistic values even though they oppose organic values. There is a lack of American pride in our society; it can be seen in the turnout for voting. I think the American society could take a more collective stance to support our soldiers even if they do not support the war.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Kene and Karla R. on how in society today, the use of the media has desensitized us towards the images of the war. I mean after awhile that horrific picture loses its impact on us we aren't all that shocked by it anymore because it is what we expect to happen. I agree with them that the humanizing part of war is when they show the soldiers during the holidays or when the return home. But I find what Kene said about the dehumanizing part of war is having the main focus be placed on statistics and number of casualities to be useful. But overall, I agree with all of those who said the war is still dehumanizing.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Karla R that the media makes war dehumanized. The media has desensitized us. The media has a lot to do with the way we look at the world. I also agree that we are so used to seeing violence on TV, that when we see violence of war we are not shocked or discussed by it. Our minds are ok with the horrible images and deaths because of the media. They make it seen as if war and death is ok. (It’s apart of life.) I also believe that there is some humanization in war. Like Karla said when the dead soldiers are brought back, reality does hit us and we do begin to see the terrible things of war. Special if we knew the soldier or their family.
ReplyDeleteI totally, also agree with Karla, especially when she says, "We really don’t pay attention to all the lives that are being lost day to day in the war in the Middle East. All the media has desensitized us," it's amazing how so many people have died at the war in Iraq, and as sad as it is-to say, for all the people who haven't experienced the war in a personal manner, the war hasn't really tolled on most of us because the media has desensitized us to violence.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kimesha on the comment you wrote about soldiers being taught to kill. I think that is a way of dehumanizing because people should not kill people. And like you say because of this, when soldiers come home they are in a different stage in their life physically and mentally. I agree with Karla C, when she states that the war is more like words and words, and people lose the meaning of why the war is being fought. Maybe the media plays into this thought, because they can manipulate what society knows, and I don’t think they want us to know everything about what is really going on. That makes war more dehumanizing because we just see the human violence but we really don’t see a cause. I do agree with Karla C. we need to be a society with organic values, and try to sympathize with the human life.
ReplyDeleteI think that our war that we are fighting today is both humanizing and dehumanizing. I think that in some ways we have seen our past mistakes in terms of war and realize how much war really hurts the parties involved as well as there families. Some families never have their loved ones come home. Other families have their love ones come home but they are never the same. I think we have learned from that and I would like to think that we try not to be brutal until absolutely necessary. I think that the men and women that do serve our country have to be a little dehumanized, for their actions in war are not that of there every day lifestyle. They have to go in with thick skin so that they can come out in one piece emotionally. On the other hand I have never experienced war first hand. I feel that my opinion on war is very naive. I see only what the government wants me to see and hear very little from the love ones that have served in the current war. I think that our culture is humanized in that some of us are innocent as to what is really going on. I know that there are killings and horrible things going on in our war, but it’s hard for me to believe that when I never really seen the effects of war.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Karla. I’m my discussion I also talked about how the majority of Americans are unaware of what is really going on in our war. I think that people in general are dehumanized with the violence and the horror that is always in our movies, video games, and everyday living. I would like to think that we as Americans would not be so dehumanized that if we saw the true life of war that it would be ok with what is going on. I truly believe that if we knew what was really going on then we would be devastated and horrified as to what our American soldiers are being put through. I think that as a society we are dehumanized to forms of violence. In the big picture of war I think that we are being spoon fed as to how the government and media want us to perceive war. (Just a note I don’t think that the government is out to get us, or that they are corrupting our brains or anything like that. I just think that the media that we receive on war is filtered.)
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kene and Karla. The media exposure of war has desensitized the American people. All of the constant graphic images are supposed to draw emotion and reaction from the American people but it actually just makes them immune to it. An average person can not be able to view these graphic images all the time with out wanting to put it out of their head. There are several times when we realize that the soldiers are accentually people with a history, a family and hopefully a future. At these times the organic values and the values of dehumanization of the industrial cultural matrix are awakened in people.
ReplyDeleteI believe that war is dehumanized because it is seen as an intensely violent situation. Soldiers fight for their lives on instinct, much like a lion fights for survival in the jungle. Even though, soldiers are told they are doing an honorable thing by fighting for and protecting the image and ideals of their country, there is nothing honorable about running the risk of being shot multiple times or being blown up. Despite the fact that we have instant communication, I do not think that we are more sensitive to the horrors of war. Most of us prefer to remain unaware of the true brutality of war. We can easily ignore what is happening in an overseas war by not watching the news or not reading a newspaper. This action represents the organic value of uncertainty over certainty. We give ours soldiers credit for their bravery, but other than that we really do not want to know about their experiences. It all goes with the saying “Out of sight, out of mind.” Since we did not experience the war first hand, we can not relate to the situation. Furthermore, we do not want to know about what soldiers saw or had to do because we realize it will be something horrific and painful.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kimesha and Karla Michelle when they say that we need organic values to make us more humans. Without organic values we would be more like the so called "ideal" version of people influenced by progress in the industrial era. Robotic yo!!
ReplyDeleteI have to apologize about my original response because when i first posted it, it said response did not go tru. So i sent it again and it said it went thru. But i see now as im doing my response post i only see two sentences with even some of that choppped off. I think lisa may have have that problem on one of her responses. Any ways to sum up what i said i believe that it a little bit of both because soldiers go in with the right intentions, and are dehumanized becaused they know they may have to kill. Were humanized because you see people protest the war and have passion about invading other countries.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kene and Karla with 24 hour media you cant help but be desensitzed becaause once you see things enough times you become numb to it. I really dont think people understand the hardship soldiers go thru. I think anti war movies play a big part in that too.
I agree with Ahmad, that "when you see it (war)all the time, you become almost numb to it".
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kinsha B that "when these soldiers return home some of them aren't the same anymore in terms of physical and mental state and that she believes war is dehumnanizing".
I agree with Karla Michelle, so also says that
"we are desensitized to the horrors of war" and that "we need the implement of more organic values, values that are somewhat emotional more humanizing values that connect people and create an understanding of humaninizing".
Adios