Excellent discussion this week! This really bodes well for this blog!
How do you understand this, Descartes' most famous philosophy of life? I know we haven't had the chance yet to discuss it in class, but you seem like an astute bunch. What do you think this means, and how do Descartes' ideas about perfection clarify that meaning (or not, as the case may be)?
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I have to admit that I haven't fully grasped the true meaning of this famous quote, but I've tackled it in the process of doing the homework. :)
ReplyDeleteDescartes claimed that in order to find absolute truth, one must reconsider everything and cast doubt upon things that seem to be true. From there, we can find absolute truth by looking at what we have left through a simple process of elimination. (I have to admit that I'm completely lost here and I would have no idea on how to go about and rule things out in the way that he described.)
Descartes came to the understanding that he MUST exist in order to have thoughts, so he could not deny his existence. The only thing left now was to come to the truth that he discovered in his quest for absolute truth. "I think, therefore I am" merely means that since he has conscious thought, he must exist. At least that's what I understood from that.
I think his ideas about the existence of a perfect being and his arguments for such an existence are more complicated than his famous quote. It didn't clarify anything for me, but Descartes was confident in his belief that a being more perfect than him existed because the very idea of such a perfect being had to come from somewhere. Descartes thought; therefore he was; so maybe because he thought of a nature more perfect than his own, that made something else more perfect exist as well. I tried to find a better way to explain that, but it's nearly impossible to make sense of something that sounds insane to begin with.
Descartes' whole philosophy had me wracking my brain and nearly going crazy. I hope I'm not the only one...
After reading over the famous quote I had a bit of trouble trying to define its meaning. I think that Descartes believed that since he had thoughts than he had to be something more than what he ever thought. That he had a mind being the "I" and a body, even though he believed the mind could carry on without the body. But also Descartes had come to the realization that he couldn't explain the possibility of an idea being more perfect than his very own idea. He believed the thought of that must not have came out of nowhere, rather it was placed there by something much greater, more perfect than him. So with that thought Descartes' famous quote has a loop hole in it. The reason being that one's thoughts are placed there by a higher power. So one must not be what they think because their thoughts came from a higher power. This might not make sense to many,but that's the notion I came across after reading over the material.
ReplyDeleteI can honestly say that when just reading the phrase "I think;therefore, I am" sounded much like "You are what you eat." However, they both have totally different meanings.
ReplyDeleteThis is what I understood from the reading:
Descartes mentions that nothing we gather from our senses is true because we all committ errors through reasoning.He figures that since he is just like everybody else his knowledege and wisdom isn't correct and therefore he is nothing. However, he counterpoints his position by saying that since he does think and react he must be something. "I think; therefore, I am". Descartes also mentions that our thoughts and our behaviors much like mind and body but can exist apart from each other.
Well, first of all, I have to admit that I am going to copy&paste my original thought on this quote which I explained in my Descartes homework. In his own explication Descartes' finds that, “In thinking, it was absolutely necessary that I must be something, or else I couldn’t be thinking,” and so, he found that thinking implies being/existing. And personally, to me that makes perfect sense, because if you think then you are! To be means to think and question and answer thoughts etc. the ability to think is what makes us ... well, us it's what makes us human and most importantly individual beings. So if you sit there and you have the ability to think and question who or what am I, well, then you are something/someone and it all goes beyond your physical being its an inner thing--much deeper it's what makes us...so to me, "I think; therefore, I am," is all about the explication of what makes us and that we really are.
ReplyDeleteIt's somewhat hard to word, and maybe hard to understand but the quote itself says so much and I am sure there are no absolutely right or wrong answers because it's really such a deep thought and such deep wording that we each have to take our own stance upon it!
;)
I think; therefore, I am, is very tricky to explain. I believe that Descartes is trying to say is, if you think, then you exist. In other words you must have a brain and have thoughts to be alive. If you don’t then you don’t exist. Descartes ideas about perfection does not clarify this meaning of I think, therefore, I am because his idea about a perfect being does not exist. According to Descartes God is the only perfect being.
ReplyDeleteI think that Descartes idea about existence is true because if you think than you exist. Descartes theory about what is truth on the other hand is perfection because truth is what we experience in life. That’s how we measure and know what is true, and that is what makes us different from everybody else.
Descartes famous lines, "I think, therefor I am" came when the philosopher pondered the state of his own existence. Descartes had questioned the world around him arguing that his perception of the world was limited by his senses, which could have decieving results. Dreams were also just as much a product of his senses as his waking life, making them as real as "reality". Faced with this conundrum Descartes feared he himself might merely be a dream. Then through his reason he decided that the fact he possesed the capability to think and question his own being was proof enough of his existence. Something that does not exist can not think. Descartes also decided that his ability to exist and think came from a more perfect being reinforcing his belief in his self.
ReplyDeleteDescartes first philosophical principle of “I think, therefore I am” is a bit difficult to comprehend. But, it basically means that if you are able to think, such as make decisions, then you exist. It seems that Descartes is trying to say that we exist through the power of our minds. Therefore, even if we had living, breathing bodies we would not exist unless we had a mind and were thinking. Yet, according to Descartes, all the information we gain through our senses is false. Then, how are we supposed to judge whether something is true or false if we do not depend on our senses of sight, hearing, etc? Descartes makes the assertion that our reason tells us quite well that our ideas and notions have some foundation in truth. Therefore, whether awake or asleep only the evidence of reason should persuade us of the truth.
ReplyDeleteI had to read this phrase and it's meaning many times. I really could not understand what he was trying to say. I think finally came up with an explanation. I think that Descartes was confused about his existence. Descartes like many of us wonder where we come from and why are we here. Descartes came up with a phrase to answer the question of existence, “I think therefore I am.” Descartes says that if we have the ability to think it is because we are someone, we are something. If we didn’t think then who would do the thinking for us? We have to exist in order to think. So anyone who is able to think is existent. Descartes clarifies his statement by saying “in order to think it is necessary to be.” With this statement he kind of proves his point from a different perspective; we need to be to be alive in order to think, therefore if anybody wonders their existence just the fact that they are thinking about it proves they exist.
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ReplyDeleteI've heard the phrase before and have always dismissed it as simple but now that I think about it, it's quite complicated. Descartes uses the phrase to basically justify the existence of mankind, and then even finds a way to tie it together with the existence of God.
ReplyDeleteIt is evident that Descartes had given this subject of existence a lot of thought because he wrote other volumes preceding the one we read (volume four). I am only guessing the other volumes are relevant because he mentions them in this one. It is interesting to see him imagine that everything he knew was certain was an illusion because this very thought process led him to believe that thinking about anything at all had to mean he existed.
Eventually he starts to wonder why he had doubts then he claims doubting is imperfect and in his doubt he was looking for something perfect in existence. This is where Descartes seems to justify his faith in God.
"I think; therefore I am." This concept was hard for me to evaluate. When I first looked at the famous quote I thought it could be talking about do what’s good for you in life. If you think that you can achieve a certain goal then you can, but when I looked up what the philosopher was really talking about I realized that I was completely wrong. Descartes looks at life in a different way. He thinks that one should examine everyday life and question what the absolute truth is. He believes that all of your true inner thoughts are given to you by a higher power but somewhere we rationalize why something is true or conform to society’s way of thinking, and this isn’t always true according to him. He feels that when we let go of the "norm" and look to our true inner beings that is where we will find the thoughts and true values. This article was completely confusing to me. The quote seems like it would be easy to interpret but when you look at the man who made the quote it then becomes confusing.
ReplyDeleteThe phrase, "I think, therefore I am" is a very profound statement. I believe that his literal meaning is that if you have the capacity to think, then just by that mere fact alone you exist. All of Descates' ideas were based on the principle that everything has a mathemaical reason for it or can be determined mathematically. Thinking, in alot of ways is a mathematical process beccause it requires reasoning. So I believe his thought process is that we are mathematical thinking beings therefore we exist
ReplyDeleteFrancisco G. Gonzalez
ReplyDeleteI agree with Claudia that Rene Descartes was always looking for the truth in everything. Descartes' "I think, therefore I am" will stand the test of time.
I also agree that Descartes admitted to the existence of a Higher Being. There has to be some one that created us.
I agree with Erica Lynn that Rene Descartes did not believe that we could trust our senses because we as human make mistakes.
I like the fact that she mentioned the fact that Descartes believed that the mind was separate from the body. That they could exist
apart from each other.
I like the fact that Justin mentioned that Rene Descartes believed in dreams. He was way ahead of his time in beliveing in our subconsious.
Adios
This response is for Kene Kwankwo, and I totally agree with you...and like you said, "Descartes uses the phrase to basically justify the existence of mankind, and then even finds a way to tie it together with the existence of God," it's so great how he ties our existence with the perfection of God. Because Descartes questions his own existence because of the imperfections he feels he has but then realizes that because he/mankind was created through God (the one who is perfect) then their must be some truth in his thoughts and his thoughts must imply his existence. It's also nice how one simple phrase can actually be so deep and meaningful once thoroughly looked at. Because just the thought that as mankind we can think is great. And to me thinking really is existing and I agree with your interpretation because I also feel that Descartes was gathering those exact thought in his 5 word quote.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Karla Michelle Casillas Duque, not only because she agreed with me, but because she states that one's interpretation of this quote depends on one's stance on it. I must admit, my first response was somewhat influenced by fggonzales's first statement on the main page because I originally thought that was the prompt posted by Dr. Battles. =P Looking around though, I see several other interesting interpretations that differ from my own and offer new perspectives.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kimesha B, that Descartes believed the mind could carry on without the body. I also agree with the sentence that Descartes had come to the realization that he couldn't explain the possibility of an idea being more perfect than his very own idea. He believed the thought of that must not have came out of nowhere, rather it was placed there by something much greater, more perfect than him. Which Descartes later say is God, he is the perfecting being and everything comes from him. I strongly agree that Descartes thought that one must not be what they think because their thoughts came from a perfect being/ higher power.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Justin on his intake of the famous Descartes quote.I felt he went all little a depth in explaining his answer, but I still found reason to explain.I agree with Justin when he said that Descartes believed whatever he perceived was limited making him doubt whether him or his perceptions had even existed, been real. I agree when he stated Descartes felt he must exist since he had the ability to think. I agree that something that doesn't think simply doesn't exist. Also, that Descartes believed that a more perfect being must exist in order for him to exist and have thought.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Erica's assement of comparing the phrase "you are what you eat" because that phrase and Descartes phrase both are comparing attributes that coincide with existence. I am not sure if she agrees with Descartes assement that a person cannot rely solely on their senses because they are not always reliabe. i agree
ReplyDeleteI pretty much agree with everyone who said that Descartes’ quote “I think; therefore, I am” implies that if we are capable of thinking, we exist. I especially agree with Erica who said that our mind and body can exist apart from each other. Descartes mentioned that our existence is not dependent of a place or material things. I guess it is kind of like when you are daydreaming, you can imagine yourself in a different place from where you really are, but in reality you are only where your physical body is.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone that we exist if we are capable of thinking, but here's another question-what if we exist, but are unable to think? Say for instance someone is in a coma and we are not sure whether they are capable of conscious thought or not. What would Descartes say about that? Or any of his contemporaries for that matter?
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